With Saturn, G.M. Failed a Makeover

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JT Moderator	Message Posted: 12/4/2008 10:08:08 AM	Ignore JT Report Abuse
	Thursday, December 04, 2008 The New York Times -- General Motors has promised Congress that it can recreate itself as a different kind of car company — smaller, with a more cooperative relationship with its union, and a lineup of fuel-efficient cars to compete with the best of the foreign brands. At least G.M. knows how difficult the challenge will be. A quarter-century ago, G.M. started Project Saturn with the same goals. And it worked, for a time. Saturn owners, including many who traded in their Hondas and Toyotas to own the first models in 1990, became cheerleaders for the division’s customer-friendly approach, while the United Automobile Workers union gave up many of its traditional restrictions to help Saturn succeed. Visit The New York Times for full article

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4eyedstang Sophomore Author Atlanta Posts:181 Points:36,200 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/8/2008 1:31:26 PM	Ignore 4eyedstang Report Abuse
	After GM cheats everyone out the success of the Saturn, they are going to market the Uranus..........
kcgrl1 Sophomore Author Virginia Posts:133 Points:38,850 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: 12/8/2008 12:21:38 PM	Ignore kcgrl1 Report Abuse
	I'll still stick with Toyota.Never been happier with a car.
JIM33 Champion Author Ohio Posts:4,051 Points:461,470 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 12/7/2008 3:42:57 AM	Ignore JIM33 Report Abuse
	It's funny how one day it's candy and the next day it's rocks.
misstweety Champion Author South Dakota Posts:3,569 Points:689,865 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 12/6/2008 8:19:50 PM	Ignore misstweety Report Abuse
	I say, Let them crash
TuNnL Champion Author Honolulu Posts:1,564 Points:183,115 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 12/6/2008 6:49:09 PM	Ignore TuNnL Report Abuse
	On 12/5/2008 at 3:22 AM, WonderfulMI wrote: >>> GM built Hummers because people wanted to drive something that they could not park. Do not blame the car companies for building stupid vehicles - they are what sold ... Most of the new vehicles sold were trucks and SUVs. Do not blame the car manufactures for pandering to our wishes. <<< Do not make excuses for GM. They dragged their feet while Ford was smart — they built the Escape Hybrid ... a fuel-efficient SUV. The demand for Hummers were artificial. Consumers didn’t ask for them. The manufacturers were building them for the military and were motivated by greed. So they repackaged the Hummer and went on a multi-million$$$ blitz advertising campaign to PERSUADE Americans that they needed one.
coreymore1 Champion Author Texas Posts:8,454 Points:896,390 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/6/2008 9:38:32 AM	Ignore coreymore1 Report Abuse
	a
coreymore1 Champion Author Texas Posts:8,454 Points:896,390 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/6/2008 9:37:09 AM	Ignore coreymore1 Report Abuse
	cool
coreymore1 Champion Author Texas Posts:8,454 Points:896,390 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/6/2008 9:36:04 AM	Ignore coreymore1 Report Abuse
	cool
coreymore1 Champion Author Texas Posts:8,454 Points:896,390 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/6/2008 9:34:59 AM	Ignore coreymore1 Report Abuse
	cool
coreymore1 Champion Author Texas Posts:8,454 Points:896,390 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/6/2008 9:33:56 AM	Ignore coreymore1 Report Abuse
	cool
coreymore1 Champion Author Texas Posts:8,454 Points:896,390 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/6/2008 9:31:58 AM	Ignore coreymore1 Report Abuse
	cool
Krinshaw2 Rookie Author New York Posts:44 Points:31,715 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 11:31:44 AM	Ignore Krinshaw2 Report Abuse
	They're going under? How will they survive on the Billions they made off of us already.Sarcasm ? I say, Let them crash.
jcVA All-Star Author Virginia Beach Posts:698 Points:90,790 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:48:33 AM	Ignore jcVA Report Abuse
	so the big babies wont quit till they get their wittle way
cdaisey Veteran Author Maine Posts:374 Points:25,885 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:27:35 AM	Ignore cdaisey Report Abuse
	For better reasons let them fold, research on greener then build up to the market, close imports, pull OUR country together, it will be hard, but what else? the same old same NO Way. WE need to climb out of the box we've been in for too long.
Sublimity Rookie Author Oregon Posts:1 Points:295 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:16:28 AM	Ignore Sublimity Report Abuse
	Toyota and other foreign auto makers make their cars in the US to escape tariffs (they dont care about creating jobs here). When we buy foreign cars made here in the US, the profits from those vehicles return to Japan/Korea etc. At least when you buy an American made car you support our families and our futures (with family wage jobs). If you want to know why our country is in such a mess, just look in your own driveway! I support using the 25 billion already earmarked for the big three (to build greener vehicles) to use for their bailout, with strings attached to make sure that they focus more of their engineering prowess on developing industry leading alternative fuel cars. Then the US and not foreign car companies will lead the world in alternative fuels and greener cars,and we can turn this country around.
doobrah Sophomore Author Virginia Beach Posts:223 Points:199,040 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:08:36 AM	Ignore doobrah Report Abuse
	So what took so long to see the light? Now that GM is at death's door, it's ready to change?
4eyedstang Sophomore Author Atlanta Posts:181 Points:36,200 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:08:03 AM	Ignore 4eyedstang Report Abuse
	The bailout will not be approved; GM Ford & Chrysler will all enter Chapter 11, and the Gettlefinger gang will be forced to find a real job.
I10Express All-Star Author San Antonio Posts:559 Points:61,820 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:06:31 AM	Ignore I10Express Report Abuse
	Average labor rates twice their competition. Continued pay for a pool of workers not working. No wonder they can't compete. The UAW is killing the golden goose for supper and demanding there be golden eggs tomorrow.
AZDaisy Veteran Author Arizona Posts:325 Points:95,640 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:05:36 AM	Ignore AZDaisy Report Abuse
	why wait till now. What have they been doing for last 30 years?
RochBear Champion Author Minnesota Posts:1,924 Points:538,860 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:05:06 AM	Ignore RochBear Report Abuse
	A few years ago I read about a guy who was looking for a job. He got up, saved with a Norelco razor, .... got into his Honda, and drove around trying to find a job in the USA. He could not find one. The problem was every last thing he used was Imported, and he wondered why he couldn't find a job. This is still true. If you buy imported stuff, don't be surprised when you no longer have a job. And Toyota, and Honda ARE IMPORTS even if they are assembled in the USA, they are assembled with Foreign parts, and the profits go back to Japan. The profits, R&D, ... all are in Japan!
coreymore1 Champion Author Texas Posts:8,454 Points:896,390 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:03:38 AM	Ignore coreymore1 Report Abuse
	cool
cdaisey Veteran Author Maine Posts:374 Points:25,885 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:03:30 AM	Ignore cdaisey Report Abuse
	Sales are down because the market is to saturated with vehicles on the lot. The Big 3, if it's not to late, need to reduce production, not necessarily close altogether.
us412 Champion Author Arkansas Posts:6,834 Points:863,580 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:02:40 AM	Ignore us412 Report Abuse
	This is everybody's tax money being used to save a few union jobs[total pay is 5 to 10 times what we make] for a few days. But it it good politics for the Democrats to hand our tax $ to one of their biggest supporters, along with the baby killers and earth worshippers.
coreymore1 Champion Author Texas Posts:8,454 Points:896,390 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:02:29 AM	Ignore coreymore1 Report Abuse
	cool
anyra Rookie Author Miami Posts:28 Points:27,560 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:02:23 AM	Ignore anyra Report Abuse
	Totally agree with RideKT22 . That's the way to go
MajorSteve All-Star Author Oklahoma City Posts:727 Points:283,140 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:01:48 AM	Ignore MajorSteve Report Abuse
	I have owned two Saturn vehicles and they have been great cars. They were affordable and efficient. I really liked the way they handle sales. There is a lto to be learned from Saturn for toher GM products. [Edited by: MajorSteve at 12/5/2008 10:02:59 AM EST]
coreymore1 Champion Author Texas Posts:8,454 Points:896,390 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:01:20 AM	Ignore coreymore1 Report Abuse
	amok
RideKT22 Rookie Author Orlando Posts:87 Points:14,665 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:00:51 AM	Ignore RideKT22 Report Abuse
	Build a better product than your competitor....you will sell more. It is called free market. [Edited by: RideKT22 at 12/5/2008 10:01:03 AM EST]
coreymore1 Champion Author Texas Posts:8,454 Points:896,390 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:00:15 AM	Ignore coreymore1 Report Abuse
	cool
mcmaster1205 Rookie Author Pennsylvania Posts:18 Points:18,510 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:00:10 AM	Ignore mcmaster1205 Report Abuse
	No one is saying to stop buying imports but we are over saturated with them. We should limit them from importing more and more.
dagas1 Veteran Author Orange County Posts:369 Points:114,270 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 10:00:00 AM	Ignore dagas1 Report Abuse
	Keep Saturn.
Arktander All-Star Author Illinois Posts:777 Points:400,700 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:59:54 AM	Ignore Arktander Report Abuse
	Never was intrigued by a car company funded by GM and hard-nosed about the sticker price for a mediocre car at best. What were they thinking?
parsec All-Star Author Toronto Posts:586 Points:89,490 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:59:01 AM	Ignore parsec Report Abuse
	Just 20-year old stories of former glory. May be.
GAC1Shirt Veteran Author Georgia Posts:496 Points:375,130 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:58:55 AM	Ignore GAC1Shirt Report Abuse
	Still driving a 12 year old Accord with almost 180 thousand miles. I don't even give it a second thought on a long trip. However my 2000 Buick LeSabre with 120 thousand gets a second thought.
coreymore1 Champion Author Texas Posts:8,454 Points:896,390 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:58:24 AM	Ignore coreymore1 Report Abuse
	cool
hank1326 All-Star Author Los Angeles Posts:759 Points:173,255 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:58:10 AM	Ignore hank1326 Report Abuse
	GM should keep the Saturn line and drop productions for the energy wasting Hummer and GMC trucks.
cheapo_gasKY Veteran Author Louisville Posts:410 Points:168,675 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:57:56 AM	Ignore cheapo_gasKY Report Abuse
	usually board of directors wait until after the damage has been done to fire unperforming and mediocre executives, this is the case with GM. All of them should go.
mcmaster1205 Rookie Author Pennsylvania Posts:18 Points:18,510 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:57:35 AM	Ignore mcmaster1205 Report Abuse
	So Sad - - but I agree with this person (Martib1215) when they say "Why haven't we limited our importing of cars? As long as the government allows Japan, Korea, and all of the other foreign auto makers to flood our markets with their cars, there's no incentive to buy American. Limit the number of cars coming INTO the country, and help GM, Ford, and Chrysler by limiting (if not eliminating) foreign competition"
anyra Rookie Author Miami Posts:28 Points:27,560 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:57:30 AM	Ignore anyra Report Abuse
	Hey Martib1215, that is a very "lefty" way of thinking. So you're saying that we, the consumers, have to drive only american cars, no matter how good or bad they are? Don't you think that if Toyota or Honda sell more than GM or Ford is because basically they are doing muuuuch better cars?
GAC1Shirt Veteran Author Georgia Posts:496 Points:375,130 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:57:10 AM	Ignore GAC1Shirt Report Abuse
	Ignorant of the world around them and greed. Too bad another American company fails. More jobs sent overseas and less revenue for the workers and the government.
txyankee Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:4,433 Points:766,925 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:56:18 AM	Ignore txyankee Report Abuse
	now they are saying there building electric cars. WOWWW. The US needs to repaire and rebuild the elctrical grid first. cant go on vacation or drive across the states without electricity to recharge. Even if we did have a grid..can you immageine the price of our electrical bill's. They are going to be tremendous.... Give me a break big 3. duh. I bought a honda and get a good looking and a better fuel efficent vehicle then they can produce... Chapter 11 reorgainize thwen come ask for a loan...
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:10,755 Points:765,860 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:56:00 AM	Ignore tomok Report Abuse
	GM (and the other two) have failed at a lot of things recently. So what’s new? Saturn could have been the high MPG, multi fuel, reasonable cost and reliable vehicle of the GM fleet. Now it’s headed for the back row, in the back lot… somewhere in BFE. Renegotiate the union contract – lower the wages and there will be NO health care for retired workers. Once you leave the company – there are no more ties to it.
Jamer All-Star Author Orange County Posts:920 Points:126,830 Joined:Jul 2002	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:55:22 AM	Ignore Jamer Report Abuse
	Ever since I bought a Toyota I've never been happier. By the way, it was made in a US plant.
brogan56 Champion Author Colorado Springs Posts:9,958 Points:1,614,145 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:55:19 AM	Ignore brogan56 Report Abuse
	Points to a long standing pattern of mismanagement on GM's part. Its sad to see but eventually ineptitude will catch up...
94Vol Rookie Author Nashville Posts:54 Points:17,405 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:54:42 AM	Ignore 94Vol Report Abuse
	Not good
wkwak Veteran Author Atlanta Posts:370 Points:46,195 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:54:30 AM	Ignore wkwak Report Abuse
	old news
seville04 Veteran Author Albuquerque Posts:479 Points:589,635 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:53:21 AM	Ignore seville04 Report Abuse
	sad!
Drill_It All-Star Author Michigan Posts:977 Points:167,515 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:52:52 AM	Ignore Drill_It Report Abuse
	Cant believe Saturn cant make it.
NickHammer Champion Author Maryland Posts:5,765 Points:1,022,895 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:52:40 AM	Ignore NickHammer Report Abuse
	I remember many years ago GM had the "GM Card" (maybe they still do). You'd get 5% of your purchases to be used towards the purchase of a GM car - but NOT a Saturn. Very disappointing, as I had no interest whatsoever in any GM car except a Saturn. Needless to say, I did not get either the GM Card nor a Saturn.
roadrunnerMO All-Star Author Kansas Posts:551 Points:141,645 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: 12/5/2008 9:52:36 AM	Ignore roadrunnerMO Report Abuse
	GM is not likely to survive without going through Chapt 11. Knowing how is not going to do it by itself. Union will not cooperate.

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