E-Squirrel
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Orange County
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10/6/2008 7:41:02 PM
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In another product, methanol-water fuel cells again prove more practical than other alternatives.
"The company's fuel-cell-and-battery combo survived the longest in a military-sponsored "wear-off" at Twentynine Palms, California. "DuPont, in collaboration with SFC (Smart Fuel Cell AG), is thrilled to have won the competition, and work with the Department of Defense to address the need for lightweight, long-endurance power system for soldiers," Mark Baunchalk, DuPont Fluoroproducts - Fuel Cells business leader, said in a statement."
Read whole article
[Edited by: E-Squirrel at 10/6/2008 7:42:11 PM EST]
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Don1222
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Michigan
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9/26/2008 6:53:44 AM
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A plug in electric car would do just fine as a beginning while the hydrogen car is being developed.
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PenDoctrJD
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Orange County
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9/26/2008 3:34:49 AM
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LOVE EM'
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TuNnL
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Honolulu
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9/25/2008 7:55:37 PM
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On 9/24/2008 at 1:50 PM, ezee2 wrote:
>>> This technology will be on hold until the Oil Giants and governments ruin the economies of the world. Oil Companies currently make the top 10 riches cartel in the world. <<<
If the U.S elects John McCain, that will definitely happen. Did you know that there are more private U.S. contractors in Iraq then there are U.S. soldiers? Why don’t we charge Iraq for U.S. services when Iraq is on track to earn $58 billion in oil profits? That will bring Iraq’s total budget surplus to $79 billion. Why is America continuing to pay billion$ for this war when it’s obvious Iraq can pay their own way?
A vote for McCain is a vote for four more years of Bush policies. Don’t be stupid, America. We need to stop spending our tax dollars on foreign countries and start spending it on Americans.
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ezee2
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Toronto
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9/24/2008 7:50:57 PM
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This technology will be on hold until the Oil Giants and governments ruin the economies of the world. Oil Companies currently make the top 10 riches cartel in the world.
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magnumCA
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Los Angeles
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9/24/2008 6:29:15 PM
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good
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POLELANE
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Ohio
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9/24/2008 3:25:46 PM
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TSA won't let the H-burgh land ever again
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Don1222
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Michigan
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9/24/2008 7:07:23 AM
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rwsb30: Cars will explode too, if the gas tank is ignited.
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rwsb30
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Dayton
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9/23/2008 11:10:55 PM
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REMEMBER THE HINDENBERG !!!! WE COULD ALWYAYS USE STEAM, YOU JUST HAVE TO HEAT THE WATER WITH SOMETHING. NO WAIT, THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.
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magnumCA
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Los Angeles
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9/23/2008 8:15:35 PM
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Then comes....................
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Bill313
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Kansas City
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Interesting. However until someone is williing to set up a real distribution network unworkable
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POLELANE
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Ohio
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9/23/2008 1:59:02 PM
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cost, safety; availability of refill, cost
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TuNnL
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Honolulu
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Under one market simulation in the article, hydrogen vehicles could see a viable market by 2013. Considering how many Mercedes-Benz and Lexus vehicles I see on the road, I think it’s a pretty fair estimate. The leases were sold out for the Honda FCV before the first one even rolled off the assembly line. That proves there is a demand for it. Cost is the only issue at this point.
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OHMS
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Orange County
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9/22/2008 7:13:01 PM
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atomic reactors are great at it...
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E-Squirrel
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Orange County
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Message Posted:
9/22/2008 5:39:36 PM
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STEVE853 asks:
"What are they waiting for?"
Prices that you could afford.
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Jagman98
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Louisville
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9/22/2008 8:48:29 AM
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I've read this article before....as for Hydrogen Fork Lifts.....never heard of Hydrogen.....propane or natural gas....yes...but hydrogen..Hmmmm...
I have heard of a few home made prototype water type reactors....fitted to cars/trucks...but the facts still have yet to prove a benefit....you still need a power source to extract the hydrogen from the water....
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STEVE853
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Florida
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9/21/2008 8:18:18 PM
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What are they waiting for?
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Don1222
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Michigan
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9/21/2008 6:29:40 PM
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It will happen if the incentives are there.
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samc3d
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Jacksonville
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9/21/2008 2:50:19 PM
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I believe we need efficiencies now. By 2050 I'll be 100 years old. Air powered vehicles are much closer reality now and they do not require a lot of supporting infrastructure.
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E-Squirrel
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Orange County
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9/9/2008 8:52:45 PM
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Hydrogen fuel cells are not the only techology that has been tried. Methnol and water fuel cells have actually powered prototypes too. It doesn't take much thinking to see that methanol and water are much easier to transport, store and use than hydrogen gas would be, and with our existing infrastructure.
Here the news about Daimler's methanol fuel cell vehicle:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2002/06/52877
[Edited by: E-Squirrel at 9/9/2008 8:53:17 PM EST]
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Jagman98
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Louisville
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9/9/2008 7:55:38 PM
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There are always adaptations required for any new technologies. Fuel cells may be one of the solutions but not the only one. We'll need to be open to any option.....in the long run it will be better.
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E-Squirrel
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9/8/2008 7:52:58 PM
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UP-Skier tells us:
"The technology for a hydrogen powered car is no problem, they have been running around for years. The big problem is the cost of the hydrogen."
I believe that the cost of the hydrogen itself is not the biggest expense. Fuel cell technology was demonstrated more than 20 years ago. The technology is not a problem. There is no real market for hydrogen gas, so its hard to compare its cost to that of other fuels, like propane or gasoline.
However, the costs of operating a practical vehicle mount up. First of all, a hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicle is a hybrid system, because the fuel cell does not readily accommodate the changing demand for electric power that a vehicle in traffic requires. The fuel cell operates, like the gasoline engine in a Prius, to keep charging the battery. While this adds somewhat to the cost, it is nothing compared with the price of the fuel cell itself.
Besides the cost of the fuel cell, a practical solution requires that we build an entirely new infrastructure to produce the hydrogen, transport it, and store it at stations. This is a huge investment. If you really like the idea of a fuel cell powered hybrid vehicle, I would propose fuel cells running on methanol instead of hydrogen. Methanol would be much easier to accommodate in our existing infrastructure for gasoline and ethanol. Methanol and water fuel cells appear closer to consumer products today, than does hydrogen.
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POLELANE
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Ohio
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9/8/2008 5:15:00 PM
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and most systems go less than a hundred miles without refuelling
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UP-Skier
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Twin Cities
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Message Posted:
9/7/2008 8:52:37 PM
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The technology for a hydrogen powered car is no problem, they have been running around for years. The big problem is the cost of the hydrogen.
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mtnpotter
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Atlanta
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9/5/2008 6:55:04 PM
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I guess I get my gases confused - I've been working in the freight distribution industry for over 20 years. I have been around many forklifts, etc. They DO run on electric batteries and propane, but hydrogen(?), that's a new one on me - unless we are defining propane as hydrogen, and my rookie chemistry knowledge tells me they aren't the same.
Can you explain about the hydrogen powered forklifts, please??
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E-Squirrel
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Orange County
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9/5/2008 5:00:23 PM
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Mazdaman7Q believes:
"Hydrogen makes much more sense than ethanol"
I don't agree. Both ethanol and hydrogen are fuels, that must be manufactured from some energy source, the way that gasoline is made from oil. Ethanol can be made from many sources, including plants or oil, whereas hydrogen must be made from natural gas.
Given the very high cost of present-day fuel cell technology, and the extraordinarily expensive infrastructure required to support it, I believe compared just as fuels (without even considering the source issues), ethanol wins hands down.
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rho
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Sacramento
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9/5/2008 1:19:38 PM
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And what is holding you all for doing this? Get-r-done.
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jbcol1
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Virginia Beach
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 12:58:35 PM
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Amen!!! Let's do it!
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ccf_jeff
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St. Louis
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9/5/2008 12:30:09 PM
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“Hybrids today are great, but you can't hybrid-ize your way into energy security. You have to move to alternatives to oil,” says Clarity Program Manager Steve Ellis. “A key point is that even with hydrogen from natural gas, we get a 60 percent reduction in CO2 from well to wheel.”
========================
That's all well and good, but how would that compare to natural gas cars like the Honda Civic gx? In other words, what is the advantage of using natural gas to produce electricity to make hydrogen to put in vehicles completely re-engineered to run on hydrogen vs burning the natural gas in the vehicles in the first place?
I don't see how adding the extra steps and having to come up with an entirely new infrastructure improves things.
Auto and truck manufacturers have been making natural gas vehicles for decades for prices around those of gasoline & diesel vehicles. Hydrogen vehicles are currently far more expensive:
"Like GM, Honda must get FCV production costs down and make it more durable. Honda CEO Takeo Fukui said recently in the Wall Street Journal the car costs tens of million of yen to build now and must fall below 10 million yen or $92,000."
(Note: FCV = Fuel Cell Vehicles) Their goal is to get them down to $92,000? It'll be awhile before I run out to buy one at those kind of prices.
[Edited by: ccf_jeff at 9/5/2008 12:34:52 PM EST]
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BIGJEFFSYR
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New York
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9/5/2008 12:03:15 PM
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HAVE BEEN WONDERING SINCE 8TH GRADE WHEN THEY BLEW UP A BALLOON WHY CARS COULD NOT RUN ON IT. DOES THAT MEAN I CAN GET PART OF THE ROYALTIES ON THE NEW CARS.
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Mazdaman7Q
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South Carolina
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 10:54:56 AM
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Hydrogen makes much more sense than ethanol
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OKRifle
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Oklahoma City
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 10:52:27 AM
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For God's sake....lets "get'er done"!
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dougrusty
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Illinois
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 10:51:08 AM
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Just do it!
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w4kh
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Riverside
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 10:47:44 AM
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If we incorporate multiple technologies, then some fuels, like Hydrogen, become more practical... US drivers must, no matter the fuel, adopt different driving habits and smaller vehicles...
Now is a great time to start!
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MarkJM
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Little Rock
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 10:46:10 AM
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I read somewhere that Hydrogen as a fuel was used before gasoline. Once gas stations started opening, the rest of the story is history
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grandamgt1
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Illinois
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9/5/2008 10:43:21 AM
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i remember long ago in science class we used electricity to split water into hydrogen gas and oxygen gas. of course energy companies do not see a viable market..... how can you charge more for water than a gallon of gas? wait a minute.... evian anyone?
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jpmorgas
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North Carolina
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9/5/2008 10:41:31 AM
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I wonder about the DOE because if they had pushed hydrogen vehicle development 25-years ago we would be driving hydrogen cars now and the rag-heads would be using camels and wouldn't be able to afford the AK-47's they are using to shoot at us. Honda and BMW seem to be the leaders, as always, in hydrogen cars. The U.S. automakers have too much internal political protectionism to develop anything worthwhile.
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tbybee
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Omaha
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9/5/2008 10:40:57 AM
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I welcome them.
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dred001
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San Jose
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HHO conversion isn't hard ..DYI backyard mechanics can do it! Enmass production a distribution could be done. An interesting method would be to upgrage power distribution infrastructure to MTempsuperconducors and use CryoHydrogen along the distribution route. Getting it to city drop point and good old fashion power substations at a 30% energy savings. ( this from existing Hydro/Nuke/Coal plants etc.) the save energy would produce the hydrogen which could be used like NatGAs, or Gasoline, cooking in your home...heating...even running local surge power stations for the "electric rush hours". It could be use to store energy from wind and solar when semand is low and source is available and allow more efficient use of existing nuculear plants which oftrn have to cycle back to near idle
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tonycmd
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Maryland
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 10:39:21 AM
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now make it affordable
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amacquarrie
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Nevada
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 10:38:01 AM
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good deal
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patbob56
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Colorado Springs
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 10:36:35 AM
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hmmm
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ss70
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Detroit
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9/5/2008 10:35:10 AM
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natural gas cars would be good for next 10- 15 years till the hyderogen cars/Electric cars set in. I dont know why it is a bigissue to convert cars to nat gas here in US .. In most parts of the world it is done with less than $150 and you still will have a optionof switching between nat gas and gasoline
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laddyboy62
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Riverside
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 10:34:25 AM
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lets see
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Wolfwings
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Delaware
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9/5/2008 10:34:06 AM
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The only way the manufacturers will ramp up making of hyrogen vehicles is for the government to force them or if the buying public insists on them. The same can be said for anything we want. It is time to ELECT new policies regarding our world. Call, write, or E-Mail your elected OAFicials to let them know your concerns, then REMIND them that you will be IN the voting booth to speak your mind.
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zivkam
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Dallas
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 10:32:18 AM
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Build it and they will come.
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RPetty
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Maryland
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 10:30:42 AM
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It's a Start!
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julius1st4
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Ontario
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9/5/2008 10:29:49 AM
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At this time , HYDROGEN CARS are kind of on the "back burner"
HYBRIDS & ELECTRIC & PROPANE are the name of the GAME at this stage.
HYDROGEN still requires more "Research & Developement". It's still not ready for the "Commercial" market.
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suzyq2007
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Dallas
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9/5/2008 10:28:53 AM
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I cannot believe that hydrogen cars will solve our problems. they will probably so expensive that most people will be unable to afford them. We just need to drill everywhere there is oil and quit relying on foreign countries for our oil
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Bababouie
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Cleveland
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Message Posted:
9/5/2008 10:27:59 AM
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Where's my jetpack already?
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